Thursday, December 28, 2006

What does submission mean ...

A friend of mine, Pistas3, has made some comments about Paul's writings being pro-women when read as intended. She has been a little busy (I asked her almost seven years ago it seems for a longer comment ... but graduate school and life happen to us all), but I found a similar scholarly analysis:

In fact, Ephes. 5.22 is elliptical, and so when Paul gets around to saying "wives to husbands as to the Lord." and so on, he is presupposing the meaning of submission enunciated in vs. 21--namely that that wife's submission should only be offered in the context of mutual submission. When the husband is exhorted to love his wife as Christ does the church, this is another form that mutual submission takes in Christ.


Mutual submission in Christ is what submission means, not one to the other.

9 comments:

annegb said...

CS Lewis describes it as surrender. He said it was kind of a magical, and magically easy experience (well, those are my words). And hard at the same time because it took so long for him to do it.

Barb said...

It is still a little confusing to me. After all, a man is to preside over his family. I understand that he should do it with love as Christ loves the Church. That makes such a difference to know that. I am the only member in my immediate family and have not had a chance to spend enough time with an active family to know how this is supposed to work.

Stephen said...

When Christ washed the apostles feet and explained that leadership and presiding meant the duty to care for and to serve, he pretty much explained it.

Getting people to understand that remains very difficult because people remain disinterested in serving instead of controlling (cf D&C 121).

Maren said...

I like this explanation. It rings true.

Happy New Year Stephen! Hope you have a wonderful one.

Barb said...

Thank you!

Téa said...

Very interesting--I'd love to get to read what Paul wrote and get context from the other letters someday.

Inventor said...

Holy Shit. (forgive my language) But I just typed in "wingcommander" in google and got all the way through ALL your sites to this blog...I was riveted, captivated and thoroughly depressed and then relieved...

This post is out of context for the blog and and you can remove it. But let me say that I play games, have for many years, never actually played WC but played other Origin games...where is my point?..ah..here it is...I haven;t played games in a couple of years namely becuase I have a 2 year old daughter as of December 27th, 2006 and a 2, almost 3 month old Son this January 10th, 2007... AND I COULD NOT IMAGINE surviving a loss as the way you have survived...
It brings me to center even more...
I also realized why I used to play games, to relieve stress...

I wish you continued happiness...
You (and your wife) have strenght I cannot fathom...I do not how I would survive...if...I cannot say it.

going to kis my babies now.
...your posts are great. Goodluck.

Anonymous said...

I'll see if I can get this to work by using "anonymous". This was a fascinating exchange. I loved Pagel's latest book, BTW..it included her personal journal. I found her respondent a tad obnoxious and, yes, conservative (insert psycho music here). What I like about Paul is that he sometimes differentiates when he is preaching and when he is prophesying. We use his statement that churches had no "custom of contention" as an admonition to not be contentious. But it could also mean that he is doing his "this is what I think..but whatever" approach. I find it odd that he would imply that some churches do have a custom of contention. I doubt that. I think he was giving the women instructions but ended by telling them we don't argue about stuff like that in our church so do whatever.

Juliann

~plaid said...

Submission is to the spirit as subjection is to the body.

I think that most of us who go through grief and suffering and difficulties and the overall human/mortal condition in a sense of unfairness, bitterness, anger, doubt, etc. are in the subjection stage, the carnal and human and physical stage of the experience. I think, maybe, what is mentioned as C.S. Lewis' definition is the transition stage, surrendering. But depending on the direction of your surrender you either fall back into subjection or you can progress to submission. Submission is the spiritual stage of the mortal experience, where you may have questions, but no doubts, and you have faith to let the questions be unanswered. It is seeing something more than your own reaction to the experience, but seeing an eternal purpose. Not being lost and absorbed by your pain in it all. It is letting Him comfort you and give you peace and carry you if you need. It is not needing to be succored because you know there are others who are still in subjection who need your succoring right now. It is something mortals don't have words for, because it is only defined in the language of the spirit. And so that is the best I can offer. ;)