Sunday, June 01, 2008

Eleventh Article of Faith

11 We claim the aprivilege of marrying before the Almighty God according to the bdictates of our own cconscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them dmarry how, where, or what they may.
That is how a friend of mine put it.

On the other hand, we have Jane Galt's perspective.

I'd always wondered where President Gordon B. Hinckley's statement about how we would need to allow domestic partnerships played into the debate.

Quoting from the Wiki about President Hinckley:
Members of the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) demonstrated near his funeral, accusing him of having an "ambiguous voice" about the gay lifestyle rather than taking a firm stand against it. WBC members protested his weakness against homosexuals at his funeral, and further criticized the church's stance on homosexuality.[32] One woman explained it was because he "preached that God loves all his children, including the gay ones."
They also seem especially upset that the:
president of the LDS church, President Thomas S. Monson, has stated church members can disagree politically with the church's opposition to same-sex marriage, but if the disagreement turns into an apostasy situation, that would be inappropriate.[36] Prominent church member Harry Reid has supported same-sex marriage and has maintained good standing in the church.

(This is my nod to what seems like mandatory blogging on the California Court decision, or maybe it should have been a commentary on the FLDS situation where the FLDS have fewer teenage girls having sex or having children than the Texas population at large. Almost an argument that there is no place in Texas safe to move the children to, other than the YFZ ranch if your goal is to prevent teens from engaging in sex or having children).

I know, I should have opinions of my own, and definite conclusions, rather than leaving it to the rest of the bloggernacle to make pronouncements. Maybe after I've had more time to sleep on it.


MoHoHawaii said...

I don't see how WBC's views on anything are relevant. They are a group of about 20 very, very disturbed people-- hardly a movement. These are the folks who picket the funerals of US soldiers because the military is too pro-gay for their tastes. !!!

I really think President Monson is going to take a softer stand on gay issues than Hinkley did. It will be interesting to see what the church does this year in California.

If you want help on formulating an opinion, you might want talk to an actual, flesh-and-blood gay Mormon and see what life looks like from where they sit. Or a parent who has lost a child to suicide. Or the straight spouse of a failed mixed-orientation marriage. Or the lonely 37-year-old bachelor who sits in the back of the Elder's Quorum and watches his world get smaller and smaller with each passing year.

(There are real costs in terms of human misery from the church's current policy toward gay people.)

Just my $0.02.

Papa D said...

Stephen, nice. Pretty much says it all.


Stephen said...

If you want help on formulating an opinion, you might want talk to an actual, flesh-and-blood gay Mormon

mohohaqii: Good point. I've talked to gay ex-Mormons. I don't know that much about them, other than I can assure you that God loves them, so I feel I should too.

If you are a current Mormon who is gay and would like to talk, I'd be glad to talk to you.

MoHoHawaii said...

I'm a cultural Mormon at this point. However, I can recommend the blogs (a married man) and celibate man) as examples of gay Mormons who are more orthodox than I am.

There's also the group blog Northern Lights, which is limited to gay Mormons who are active in the church.

Finally, a must-read blog is , written by John Gustav-Wrathall, a man who has lived with his same-sex partner for 15 years and is active in the LDS Church as a believing excommunicant. His accounts of how he is treated in church are painful for me to read, but the sincerity of his belief is inspiring.

Stephen said...

the sincerity of his belief is inspiring

Sounds like a saint.

Hope that sort of example brings you back.

I've read many of the blogs, btw, I find the entire thing interesting as a case in dispute resolution that has proven harder to resolve than many felt it would be in their respective congregations or groups.

Anyway, thank you for your comments.

MoHoHawaii said...

You know, if anyone could bring me back into the fold it would be John Gustav-Wrathall. I love that guy. It's funny that the most spiritually inspiring Mormon I know is excommunicated.

Papa D said...

mhh, Many of the most inspiring people are those who have passed through or are passing through the most intense furnace of affliction. It doesn't surprise me that some of the most inspiring people would have been excommunicated. I know one of the most inspiring members of my own ward was excommunicated and now serves as the YW Pres. She also is Black, so she has had that additional cross to bear within here extended family (being the only member of the Church).

Hugh Conway said...

Witt v. Secretary of the Air Force, a case worth looking at.

The Pastoral Princess said...

Just tossing my 2 cents in here, for what it's worth, but I will never understand why groups like the WBC cannot see themselves for the hate mongers that they are.

Love is love in my book.