Wednesday, November 10, 2010

On finding a match

So, you are still not married.  I didn't get married until I was 29.  But here are my comments.

First, some background.

I knew a guy, I’ll call him Jammin (Jam for short).  He was strong and tall, but not quick (so he could not play basketball or football – not quick enough, trouble with powerlifting, too tall).  He wasn’t as good looking as he thought, and not as smart as he needed to be.  He had a thing about really pretty girls.  Of course the only really pretty girls that would date him were ones with problems that off-set their being pretty.  He couldn’t figure out why he was always dating girls with serious problems, how come he always ran into the ones that turned out to be scary? 

It was simple.  He wasn’t good looking enough to be a good match or fit for that group and did not have off-setting qualities (dating sites show that you can exchange money, education and other things for good looks if you are a guy). So, if you were a pretty girl, you probably had some pretty serious negatives before you would date him.

I knew another guy, I’ll call him Loser (Lou for short).  Lou liked really pretty girls. He liked pretty girls who could think.  He invariably picked them up on the rebound after a bad break-up, he wasn’t pushy.  They would drift away as they recovered.  Mostly they remained friends, and interestingly enough, formed a group of ex-girlfriends of Lou’s that enjoyed each other, just not him.  Lou couldn’t understand why he couldn’t hold on to the kind of girls he was dating.  Now he is old enough that he is kind of skeevy vis a vis the girls he would like to date and has burned some bridges as well.

His problem is pretty simple.  He has little to offer (less now that he is older) other than a non-threatening supportive ear and friend-style dating.  But no one in their right emotional mind sees him as dating material for romantic dates.

Both of these guys were not matching what they were to what they were chasing.  Both of them had long histories of failed relationships.  Jam succeeded by breaking free of his blinders.  Lou is, well, there is a reason I called him Loser.

We probably all know a Lou and a Jam.

This is kind of a harsh introduction.  I knew a guy who told the same story, more or less, except it was about a girl who chased football players and another who chased drummers. 

Too many people think that the moral of the stories is that you have to “settle” for less than you “deserve” or “want.”  That’s wrong.  What you have to do is find who you match.

Some things make it easier.  If you are a guy, go to New York City.  There is a surplus of single women in New York City. If you are a woman, go places where there is a surplus of men.

Next, go places where people are looking for people like you.  I had a friend, Martha Muriel who was pretty and a dancer.  She went to a ward full of short professional men and tall models.  The men all wanted a short model (which, of course, wasn’t going to happen, there is a minimum height for models after all).  The women were all looking for tall professionals (which group, it turns out, is mostly already married).  None of them were looking for Hispanics, more their loss.  Martha left after a couple visits, she was much too smart to waste more time there.

There are things that look like problems, but that are not.  They are matters of fit.

In addition, it is easy enough to have huge blocks of time consumed by a failed relationship.  Though finding yourself 40 and single whether through divorce, death, or just never getting married can be much the same.

It is similar for both men and women.  In some areas there are too many men, in others there are too many women.  This is true of physical locations as it is of areas of interest (you trying to become a doctor’s spouse or snag an unmarried professional athlete?  There are a lot of people in those areas).  Some areas have huge pools (so the chance of someone in your sub-pool goes up) some have very tiny pools (if there are only three guys and three women in an area, the chance of a close match has probably gone way down).

Finally, what do you use as a filter?  What things do you use to exclude?  Every “hard” barrier will limit you. For example, my wife is taller than I am.  If I had insisted on someone shorter than I was, I would not have married her (and vice versa – luckily we fell in love before we realized the height issue). 

All of these matters taken together means that it is very, very possible for someone to never find a match without it being their fault and without anything being wrong with them.

Possible issues:

1.                  Geography.  Sometimes it is just bad luck where you live or where your education goals take you.
2.                  Relationships.  Not all relationships succeed.  However, each time you invest time and effort in a relationship it puts you a few more years down the road.
3.                  Looking for the wrong solutions in seeking a match.  Mostly that is idiot guys looking for physical attractiveness in women, but there are other things that come up.
4.                  Filter issues – excluding on the wrong things.  Which does not mean you should ever, ever give way when you are filtering for the right things.
5.                  Other gap creators (there are things that make a match more difficult.  Age, personal interests, political tastes, etc.).

Note that the most common issues do not require anything to be wrong with someone.  Being “squirrely beyond belief” and crazy is not something that keeps people from being married (would that it were so – I know lots of people in that category, some who have been married multiple times).

Solutions:

            Well, that is an entirely different thing.  What are the real things you want and the real deal killers?  Then, list why they are what you want and why they are deal killers (e.g. the thing you have against New York Republicans would apply to old fashioned southern Democrats and would make you fine with Arnold Schwarzenegger Republicans).

            Then re-think a focus.  You might start working at a Starbucks (comprehensive insurance for all employees)(and, if you don’t drink coffee, a wonderful place because you aren’t tempted to waste your money at work – I had a good friend whose wife worked at Starbucks until last year).  From there you might move to a Starbucks in the area where the other sex is in surplus.  Or a place where there are a lot of people in your interest area (you might not head to Brownsville if your interest area is skiing, for example).

            Finally, consider and reconsider your goals.  I used to be a game designer.  Good enough that Origin cold called me to offer me a job.  But, that is no longer a goal of mine.  There is a time and there is a time. My goals are different now, I let myself grow into new ones, all the better for my skills and time constraints.  Look at your own and think if they have grown with you.

13 comments:

Anonymous said...

Interesting thoughts. I agree with many of them. But a big problem for single LDS women is demographics. There simply aren't enough LDS men to go around. (If there actually are areas where there's a surplus of LDS men, particularly over 35, I'd like to know where--as would thousands of my single female friends!)

Stephen said...

Older unmarried LDS men tend to kind of disappear as well. At BYU just after I graduated from law school, I had a room mate who was 35.

Air Force Academy graduate, joined the church in Oklahoma, came to BYU to get some more education and was interested in marriage, but not at all interested in the 20something culture. He was pretty much invisible.

Or the BYU law school (which was more in the 26 to 32 year old range), when I was there, a third of the men were single. I'd say most of them were invisible as well.

A group did try to push us to some social events, most of which were kind of flops (as one guy said, "If I wanted to marry a poodle ..."). The only one that succeeded was when someone set the group up with a collection of "old maids."

The stake president who did it acted as if he had pulled one over on everyone (look at who I tricked you into going out with). But the guys, who had grown out of looking at physical appearance, ended up with a number of them finding people they really enjoyed.

But in my class alone there were about fifty guys who were pretty much invisible on the dating scene (and about ten who were not).

I've got a nephew in medical school right now. Great "kid." Worked his way through school and a mission on his own. I think Ben is 29 or 30 (I'll have to ask my wife again. He is my nephew, a great kid, but so busy as to almost be invisible.

A lot of work, a lot of study. There are single LDS guys in and graduating from med school. But, you are right, they are hard to find.

SilverRain said...

I don't think the problem is not enough LDS men. I think it is, rather like Stephen is saying, not enough unmarried LDS men with realistic standards. I can't tell you how many single LDS men refuse to date a woman who has been married before because of the "baggage". I can tell you that never-been-married women of a certain age have just as much if not more baggage.

What attracts me is the sort of person, Stephen, that you describe as your 35 year old friend (I'm 31), but I find two major problems like you point out.
1) Sane mid-singles are not in the YSA-like midsingles culture. They're at home, doing real-world things in their wards. How do you look for such people?
2) When you have major liabilities such as children and a failed marriage, not to mention major physical issues such as a post-baby body and higher-than-average height, it is almost impossible to get any sort of man to look past those things at the benefits that come with ALL those things.

There is a solution to these problems which is essentially a blended family/midsingles ward, but when I tried to propose starting such a ward here in Salt Lake, I got shot down hard by the leadership.

So I'm back to puttering around in my own life. Finding a spouse just isn't worth taking away what little time I have with my kids.

Stephen said...

Sane mid-singles are not in the YSA-like midsingles culture. They're at home, doing real-world things in their wards. How do you look for such people?

I wish I knew the answer.

When you have major liabilities such as children and a failed marriage

I almost wrote about two doctors I knew who both married women with children after their first marriages failed. They were both very happy as a result.

As to Phil 35 year old friend -- alas, that was twenty-five years ago or so -- so he is no longer available.

But seriously, we need a cultural re-evaluation of "baggage" as much of it really isn't.

And the kids are the real part of life, the valuable part.

BTW, I'm still hoping for a guest post at Wheat and Tares from SilverRain.

SilverRain said...

*lol* Thanks! I didn't know I was supposed to write one.

And from my perspective, the blended ward like I linked to IS the solution. It lets singles continue on in their real lives and yet still come in contact with other singles going on with their lives.

I don't know why there is no leadership support for it in Salt Lake, of all places, but there it is.

SilverRain said...

*lol* Thanks! I didn't know I was supposed to write one.

And from my perspective, the blended ward like I linked to IS the solution. It lets singles continue on in their real lives and yet still come in contact with other singles going on with their lives.

I don't know why there is no leadership support for it in Salt Lake, of all places, but there it is.

Anonymous said...

SilverRan, the issue you're talking about is greatly exacerbated by demographics. Men think they can afford to have unrealistic standards because there are SO MANY single LDS women. I'm in a mid-singles ward that is 75-80 percent female. I visited another one on Sunday that is about the same. When you compare high-functioning women with high-functioning men, the numbers get even worse.

Keri Brooks said...

Your point about fit is excellent. It's a point I tried to make in a recent post on my blog, but you made it so much better.

I agree with Anonymous about demographics, and I would love to know where I can look for these supposedly invisible men. I actually joined the J. Reuben Clark Law Society with the intention of meeting single LDS men, but they're all married. (I stuck around anyway for the networking opportunities.)

I also agree with SilverRain about the mid-singles problem. I didn't like the YSA scene, and the mid-singles scene is even worse. The LDS dating scene is geared toward extroverts, with little to offer introverts, especially introverted women.

Jessica said...

FWIW, I live in a combined family/midsingles ward in Long Beach, CA. I don't think I would call it a raging success, but it seems to contribute to about one (apparently successful) marriage per year.

Fei said...

Love this post, Stephen, found it on Celibate in the City.

We always talk about men with unrealistic expectations about what they can get, just like the examples you mentioned, but women are just as guilty. Just because it isn't as obvious because we aren't going primarily for looks, doesn't mean that we are exempt from being unrealistically picky about the wrong things.

Also, I always thought that Mid Singles always met online on LDS dating sites. That's where a lot of the women in Malaysia where I am from (where there are virtually no active single men past the age of 30) meet their husbands, if they didn't manage to do that at BYU-Hawaii, of course.

SilverRain said...

Jessica—That assumption that "success" is measured by marriages is the EXACT problem. In the case of blended wards, the point is church activity, NOT marriages.

I have little interest in going to a ward with the goal to marry myself off. I just want to live life, and if marriage comes, it comes.

But it will come, if it does, because I've gotten to know someone in real life situations, not in the YSA-like bubble of showmanship.

And I've tried LDS dating sites. They're an absolute no-go if you have the liabilities I mentioned before. That's like taking the showmanship bubble and turning into an iron balloon.

twiceuponatime said...

I agree with SilverRain that the midsingles programs are not for sane midsingles. I can think of many things I'd rather do than spend my time in darkened rooms with top 40 music blaring at top volume.

Now, if they were to try something like Contra (old style folk) dancing that actually allowed for socialization and interaction, I might go for that. The only midsingles activities I have attended have been things like country dance lessons or potluck/lectures - which they don't have many off. The church leadership in this area seems to think we all want to act like we're still in our early 20s.

I do think the LDS dating sites aren't so bad, though I've had much better luck with e-harmony (you can set your preferences to "LDS only") than the main LDS dating sites. Of course, I don't consider divorced women with kids to be baggage. But then, I'm a divorced man in his 30s, and a lot of single LDS women consider that baggage. I've been blown off more than a few times merely because I was divorced.

Overall, I think there are ways to find those people like us who don't "do" the midsingles scene, but are still interested in creating relationships. But it does take work, and I can see how mothers who have the kids most of the time would have a much harder time than someone like me who only has the kids on some weekends.

twiceuponatime said...

I agree with SilverRain that the midsingles programs are not for sane midsingles. I can think of many things I'd rather do than spend my time in darkened rooms with top 40 music blaring at top volume.

Now, if they were to try something like Contra (old style folk) dancing that actually allowed for socialization and interaction, I might go for that. The only midsingles activities I have attended have been things like country dance lessons or potluck/lectures - which they don't have many off. The church leadership in this area seems to think we all want to act like we're still in our early 20s.

I do think the LDS dating sites aren't so bad, though I've had much better luck with e-harmony (you can set your preferences to "LDS only") than the main LDS dating sites. Of course, I don't consider divorced women with kids to be baggage. But then, I'm a divorced man in his 30s, and a lot of single LDS women consider that baggage. I've been blown off more than a few times merely because I was divorced.

Overall, I think there are ways to find those people like us who don't "do" the midsingles scene, but are still interested in creating relationships. But it does take work, and I can see how mothers who have the kids most of the time would have a much harder time than someone like me who only has the kids on some weekends.